With so many of your letter writers being out of Thailand for a while each month, the question they have is always one of fidelity. Can a Thai woman be trusted? My advice is simple. If you have the doubts that you obviously have, then trust is gone and so is the relationship. I have little doubt that she is fooling around when you are not there, private investigator is the best way if you really want to know. If it were me I would be out of there already.
That’s all a bit negative advice, Petal. Though I agree that if the evidence seems to be pointing all in the one direction, then perhaps a PI for a short time (oops!) is a good idea. If nothing else it will confirm your fears, or show that it really was a som tum hens’ party. You can expect to pay quite heavily, by the way. One way or another, this relationship is going to cost you money.
A couple of weeks ago, a writer, James, did make one very good point on relationships, saying, “The right person for you.” If as he says, “they are all the same” to him he need look no further than the lowest common denominator that suits his definition of a love relationship. Then he can write his tortured novel for the education of all us old fogies who don’t know as much about adult relationships as he does. I see a lot of attitude here. The attitude is not infatuation as much as “it is all about me.” If you care about someone James it is not just “good party times” it is about truly being a helpmate for that person’s future and yourself being a part of it.
Thank you for the very sound advice for James. “Love” relationships are certainly difficult at the best of times, but there are more traps for the young and unwary in Thailand, than many other places. Like you I will wait for the tortured novel, but I don’t know that I like being called an “old fogie”.
I read somewhere that all Thai girls want is to get their hands in your pockets, and once they have cleaned you out, that’s it. No money, No Honey as the T shirt says. Is this really true? I have met a few nice girls every time I’ve come over, and although I pay for everything when we’re out together, I think that’s natural. I pay for everything back home when I take out a woman, so what’s the difference?
Dear Confused Chuck,
The difference is you get more fun out of the relationship here, my Petal, or that’s what I get told by my gentlemen friends. It is nice to see there are still gentlemen in this world, and if you are paying, I’ll have a bottle of Veuve Clicquot when we go to dinner. Of course you can have what you want (to drink, Petal) as well, I’m not stingy. Please let me know a week or so in advance, as I will have to fit you in to my crowded appointment book, though with promises of Veuve Clicquot you do go to the top of the waiting list.
I have been reading your column and have enjoyed it very much. As I am going to be over there in September for the first time I am writing. It seems that everyone I ask (single men like myself) talk about being at the bars as the way to meet the Thai girls (workers). I’m not a big drinker so will I offend if I do not drink a lot or wish to leave to go see music, movies or see the country.
I can assure you that the ladies from the bars have not the slightest interest in how much ‘you’ drink, only in how much ‘they’ drink, while you are paying of course! This is because they receive a percentage of the cost of the ‘lady drinks’, while they get nothing from the price of your drinks. This is how they make money, as they are ‘working’ women, getting their monthly salaries plus extras. It works like this, since you have not been here before, Petal. They generally receive a small wage (or retainer), and then their lady drinks percentage plus a percentage of the so-called ‘bar fine’ which is what the punters (like you) pay for the honor and glory of taking one of the blushing young ladies away from the bar to see music, movies or the country. Anything else is a private arrangement between the lady and the customer, as you have to realize that there is no prostitution in Thailand, because the government said so. And in the statute books has said so since about 1966. While you are paying for things, you will not offend. However, when the money runs dry, then it is a different story.
I have been reading your column for the past 3 years, always enjoy your answers and this time it’s me looking for some answers.
I am 40, and met this girl about 1 year ago that’s in her very early 20s. Not an issue, because I am not one of the grey-haired golden oldies on pension that enjoys spending their pension the way they have always dreamt of.
Of course, as with many of them, she works by night and prefer to take her beauty sleep during the day. That worked for me, I travel each week to Pattaya to work for a stable, well paid income that can take me to my happy retirement some day. At the same time, for the companionship I provide the support in small quantities based on the going-rate for companionship.
Of course, I am not the only companion but understand that everybody has a job. Over months, she managed to rank in changes to her mom’s home in extend of 300,000 baht, landed a massage shop of over 100,000 baht and upon enquiry, it seems that there were about 3 other companions in tow since the beginning of this year, one very old but rich married guy, 2 mid year olds, each providing for very well paid salaries each month on top of these luxuries, she has it made but when I found out and asked (I was hoping that I would have been told before asking but that is not always the norm I believe), she said that there are no feelings for these people, they are a job and she needs the money. She is not a big spender and as in every family, relatives are being taken well care of hence the salaries that are coming in handy on top of the well being of an increased bank balance each month. She said I am the one she loved and want to have a life and family with and hence the no cost asked of me, the good thing is that I believe her, but at one point in time, there was a demand from the one guy to drop all other companions or the money stops... she tried with me but according to her the feelings of love has exceeded the feelings for money... however, demands are coming in now for getting (renting) a condo and next year buying a home (in her name most likely she says)... and then the fun will start I guess.
She is currently having a visit from the one companion that provides the ridiculously high lump sums, so I can’t visit her shop for this month, but she still visits me at every opportunity. That must be real love for now from her.
My dilemma is, how long will this real love last before the love for money and a single life time well paid for will outweigh the love?
I am not sure if I should move on or tag along and see where it ends up... it’s mixed emotions and next year may see a new story unfold... as she herself said, who knows what will happen?
Yes, I did shorten it (a lot), but do you know what a sadist is and a masochist is? In simple terms, a sadist is someone who is nice to a masochist, and you, my Petal are a prize winning masochist. She must certainly be some woman, with four of you on the lead at one time. And you don’t have a dilemma - get out of there now and forget the sweet nothings she is whispering in your ear - that’s if you’re allowed back in the house after Mr Moneybags has had his fill and she has filled her wallet. Run!
You may think I’m stupid, but I recently found out that my wife has been cheating on me. This really floored me at the time, as there was no indication as to what she was up to. I decided to give her a chance, as this was the first time she had done something like this. We spoke about how lies kills a relationship, and she was her old sweet self again. I thought how lucky I was to have been able to save the marriage. Then in the middle of it all, the loving dinners and together photos, I caught her at it again. Same guy. Same story. Please forgive me. I thought about it for a few months, wanting to go back to how we were, and then I found out she was also cheating on him, as well as me! What is it with these Thai women? Have they no honor? Are they raised to infidelity? You’ll never catch me in a (im)permanent relationship with one ever again. A friend of mine said it’s better to rent than to buy, and I think he’s right.
I do feel sorry for you, my Petal, but you probably don’t believe me either, and I don’t blame you at all. It certainly must have been a shock for the chap she was seeing behind your back, to find he was being cheated on too! Don’t rush into anything, and let time be the healer.
Careful, careful readers! Generalizations are rarely accurate. I have found bar girls to be mostly delightful. My ex-bar girl wife of 10 years is lovely, honest and loyal, and very happy.
Dear Lucky Farang,
I am so glad to hear of your success with your lady of the night. If only it were like that all the time! I take your point about generalizations, and we’ve got lots of generals around here at present, but by far the great majority of farang/bar girl associations is not a happy ending (even though it might have started that way)! And of course the girls are delightful - that’s their job, Petal. That’s what they are employed for. Let me know when your silver wedding is coming up and I’ll pop over for a bubbly or three.
If I hadn’t been spending most of my holidays and money in Thailand for the last 20 years, I would think that Pattaya Mail made up these letters. But I know that these ignorant people actually exist, and there’s a lot of them in Pattaya. And of course Phuket, Samui and elsewhere.
I have “my own” girlfriend in Thailand, when I am there. I know what I need to know about her, after knowing her for nearly 4 years. I really like her. I trust her with everything because she tells me just about everything. She shows me mails and texts from farangs abroad, and ask me what it says. And sometimes she asks me to reply these people. I can speak and write ‘Thinglish’. Whatever will happen to me and my lovely Thai woman, she needs money. I could never pay as much as she needs, I know that. And she knows that. So on my last holiday in January, in Pattaya, I thought that the best I could do for her, was to let her work all she wanted. I said that I would still pay her every day, on the condition that I would wake up with her. We made a set of extra keys to our guesthouse. I must say that this arrangement worked out perfect for both of us. I like some time on my own. Oh, and she told me that I could take a girl ‘short time’ if I wanted to. I never did though. I am fine with my Thai woman. I have never sent money and she has never asked for it. She ‘use’ me to get information about farangs. I like to give her advice. Some of the worst people in Asia are actually from the West, in my opinion.
I will never understand farangs who go into a bar, meet a girl, and then want her out of the bar as quickly as possible and back home to her village, and pay for that (she will come back to the bar as soon as the farang has left for home, of course).
Me (47 y.o.) and my Thai woman (36 y.o.) get along because we both know the realities of life, I think. I respect my Thai woman, and any other bar girl/woman. I would do exactly the same, if I was a poor Thai woman, or just a woman. It beats factory work or construction work, in my book.
I had to shorten your letter just a little for space reasons, and I am glad that you are another farang happily in a relationship with a Thai bar girl. Your situation is a bit different from Lucky Farang as your is closer to a ménage a trois, rather than a monogamous one, but if it works for you, then just keep going Petal!
In reply to Eddie who wants the girls to lower their prices - Hey Ed, This is Thailand where what goes up rarely comes down. Some hotels can be almost empty but rather than lower their rates they lay off staff. You come up with a logical answer to the working girls problem. Lower your price? But will the landlord lower her rent? Will the song-tow driver allow her half fare or must she survive on Mama noodles and Pla-kapong as the food vendors have a set price.
If your boss has trouble selling his product, would you take a cut in wages? I think not. You can front up to social services and claim hardship and will be looked after. These girls don’t have that option. It’s either go home or work Beach Road, where they have to put up with “Cheap Charlies” like you, who even try to get a cut rate on a B.300 short time.
That’s right Ed, I remember now, you are the guy I have to step around outside 7/11.
I think you are being a little hard on Eddie. He’s only outside the 7-11 because he is waiting for the morning shift to come and open Suckers Beer Bar at 10, or 11 or whenever mamasan drags herself out of bed. BTW, I don’t think Eddie can claim hardship, as he is on a frozen pension. Frost-bite perhaps?
I read so many stories about men getting taken advantage of and always it seems to be the Thai’s fault. I do not agree. Some people are suckers by their own design. I too have had the money relationship and was very well aware of it at the time. But after a time I decided to change my situation. In doing so this allowed me to meet a very wonderful woman. We have been married for 2 years now and I have to be honest, I have never been so content and happy in all my 59 years.
My wife is not nor has ever been a bar girl. She has a 16 year old daughter who is the best mannered and most well behaved 16 year I have ever dealt with. As for money, she controls it all and I had to break her of the habit of reporting how much she spends and for what. Still if she wants to buy something for herself or OUR daughter she wants to advise me in advance. Now back to the other relationship I had. Any money I lost it was my fault because my heart and gut told me it was a bad situation with no chance of ever being a long lasting relationship. Maybe I was lonely but I always hoped for the best. I should have listened to my heart - it never lies to me.
Now I am faced with a new problem. My mother of 78 years and my wife are best friends. So when they agree on something and I don’t, it is 2 against 1. I always surrender to them as they are my life and my job is to keep them both safe happy and healthy.
So tell you readers there are millions of good people here in Thailand they just may have to step away from the bars and tourist areas to find and meet the real Thais.
You get what you ask for here, maybe some people just need to understand what it is they are needing and want they are asking for. If you could maybe post a few more happy endings stories in your column it may change one person’s mind and guide one more to a fulfilling life here in the land of smiles.
Your letter finally got to me via a roundabout way, but it did, and it tore at my heartstrings too. You are obviously a very kind man but you should be aware that when your mother, your wife, and your daughter agree on something you don’t, then it will be 3 against 1.
I am very glad that you got out of the prior relationship, relatively unscathed, but I do mention caution. Your new relationship is only two years old, and most of the horror stories I receive here can come after many years of marriage. But I do also know that marriages can fail at any time, in any country, especially in the western countries.
As far as ‘happy endings’ are concerned, you are still at ‘happy beginnings’, but I do wish you and your new family all the best.